Special Episode – Coach Jay Martin

On today’s episode, I speak with Coach Jay Martin from the Ohio Wesleyan Men’s Program.. We talk about his pending retirement from college coaching. He describes the upcoming changes in the NCAA landscape. Lastly, we discuss the benefits of playing D3 soccer. Learn more about Ohio Wesleyan Men’s Soccer.

Matt: [00:00:00] Hi, everybody. Welcome to discover college soccer today. I’m very much lucky to be joined by coach Jay Martin from Ohio Wesleyan. Welcome coach. Thank you 

Coach: very much. Glad to be here. 

Matt: Yeah. Glad to have you again. I look back, it’s almost two years ago to the day, uh, we spoke about, uh, you know, your time at Ohio Wesleyan and what you do with that program.

And as many folks know, you, this is your last season, uh, the, the all time winningest coach, uh, hanging them up. So, uh, sad to see, but hopefully it’s only, only good things for you. 

Coach: Hopefully I, uh, It was a difficult decision, Matt. Um, my brain says keep going. My heart says keep going, but my body is just falling apart and, um, it’s hard for me right now to stand on the field for two hours and practice.

So it’s, it’s time. And, and as you well know, this is a young man’s game and I’m no longer a young man, and so I look forward to Matt taking over for me and he’ll do a great job and, um, and I will find some other things to do. 

Matt: Well, we’ll have to get Matt on the pod maybe next summer, uh, when, when, when he’s got the full reins there.

But, uh, but you still, you know, you you’re in the heart of the, uh, the conference tournament coming up, right. And, uh, looking to get that NCAA bid. So what, what do you think the prospects are coach? We can have a storybook ending here in your last season. 

Coach: Um, I don’t know if it’s storybook, but I think it’ll be positive.

I [00:01:30] think, um, I’m a part of me. I’m mildly surprised we have like the fifth, uh, strongest strength of schedule in division three this year. And we did that on purpose. We always play a tough schedule. Um, but as you know, the NCAA changed the rules in the middle of the summer and, um, caught us unaware. And strength of schedule in terms of, of its weight has gone down a little bit.

It’s now only 20 percent of the, of the pie. And so I was a little worried when that happened. I was a little worried and because. so much emphasis on wins and losses, I think personally is a mistake, but there wasn’t anything we could do about it. Although a lot of schools, maybe you are aware of this. A lot of colleges, D three colleges changed their schedule and dropped some tough teams and added some not so tough teams.

And so that that caught us by surprise. But You know, our first eight games, and I may be off a little bit on this, but not much, I think six or seven were ranked in the top 15 in the country. And so it was, you know, it was touch and go there for a little bit. But, you know, we ended up real strong in the conference and, um, had an under, I think my assistant, Matt, I think he told us this is our 19th undefeated conference season and our 25th.[00:03:00] 

Conference championship, regular season championship. So we have, um, DePauw on Thursday night and should we be fortunate enough, we’ll play the winner of Denison and Kenyon on Sunday on both games will be at Ohio Wesleyan. So that’s obviously, that obviously helps. I think. We do really well at home. So hopefully that’ll carry us through.

So we’ll see, you know, um, I think we’re in a good place to get a, an hour at large bid, but with the new system and everything, Matt, I, I, I’m not counting on it. So I, you know, we’re going to just have to see how it goes. 

Matt: Yeah, yeah, it is, uh, it is a little odd with the new system, and I think it’s just gonna be a crapshoot, but, uh, Hopefully, hopefully, uh, the soccer gods are on your side, coach.

Uh, we gotta see Ohio Wesleyan in the NCAAs for your last season, for sure. Um, well, when we, when I saw the news, uh, read the article there in the Columbus Dispatch, uh, you know, it says you’re staying at Ohio Wesleyan, uh, maybe doing some teaching, but what else are you gonna be doing with the school? Are you gonna be doing anything in the, in the soccer universe or, or, or what’s that looking like?

Coach: Yeah, I’ve been on the faculty since I came here, and that’s one of the things you mentioned. We might talk about Division three and what’s going on in D3 a little bit later. But when I came here in August of 1977, all 25 coaches in the Division three top 25 were also professors and teaching. This past [00:04:30] year, I was the only one, and it’s really changed the landscape in Division three, as you can imagine, and I suppose we can talk about that.

A little later, but I’m a full professor. I’m a member of the faculty. I enjoy teaching a lot. In fact, I’ve had a number of chances to leave Ohio Wesleyan over the years. And most of the people that were looking at me, you know, D1 soccer of 20 years. Um, they didn’t want me to teach anymore and teaching is a big part of.

who I am and what I like to do. So I’m going to continue teaching in the physical education department. Um, I currently teach courses in sports psychology and. Coaching and leadership. They think I know something about coaching. So they stuck me in there. And, um, so I think I will do that. I’ll have to add a few new courses and I’m trying to figure out what they’ll be and, and we’ll see, you know, as far as soccer goes, um, I’m still editor of soccer journal with the United soccer coaches.

I will continue with that. And I think this will give me time to do some other things. I, I talked to a lot of coaching groups during the course of the year and a lot Uh, high school athletic departments and so on and so forth about about leadership, about coaching, about all those things. You may know that my, I had a book published last November and I use that as kind of the groundwork for.

For [00:06:00] my presentations and, um, I’m looking forward to doing more stuff like that, doing a little more writing and I’ll, I’ll stay active and busy, believe me, and teaching is important because my wife doesn’t want me hanging around here in my home all, all day long. So I gotta be in the classroom. 

Matt: Yeah, that sounds good.

That sounds like a good plan. Well, you mentioned it, but, you know, as you know, I was a, I was a Division III soccer player, loved every minute of it, made that choice, you know, specifically because I wanted that, that balance of, of soccer and, and academics and, and that kind of thing. You, like you said, you’ve had chances to leave DIII, you stayed DIII.

Um, sure, there’s some changes going on in DIII, but, but, What do you feel are like the big benefits of Division III and why students should really take a look at it, you know, instead of that kind of D1 or bus mentality? 

Coach: Yeah, Division III is the last remaining bastion of collegiate athletics. I mean, everything else has become professional, and I think, you know, with the transfer portal and these types of things, it’s just become, I mean, well, division one was always a business, but it’s really over the top now in terms of business.

So, if you’re a young man, in my case, or woman, uh, who’s interested in combining a good academic career and a good soccer. Division three is the place, the place to look. I’ve had so I’ve lost so many in my 47 years coaching so many young men [00:07:30] to other division one schools, to be honest with you. And a year later they came back to Ohio Wesleyan and division one is not what it’s cracked up to be.

The problem that, as you know, is every young. Boy and girl or man and woman 18 and graduating from high school think division one’s the answer They want to go to division one and go to the MLS and all these other things and it just doesn’t happen you Statistically you have a better chance of getting hit with a meteor than you do going to the MLS But it’s very difficult to talk to an 18 year old Kid about that.

And especially the 18 year old kids, parents who are convinced at the point, all this money into our club system are convinced that that’s the answer for their, for their son. And, and, and even now more, more for women is the women are catching up to, to, to, to the men. So it’s, it’s, it’s, um, the transition, I think.

I don’t like the way college athletics is going at all. Nobody asked my opinion. So that’s how it is. Um, but D three, I believe it’s the place to go. Yes, there are restrictions for years. I used to say that division three was the whipping boy of the NCAA when a division one program did something stupid.

Division three would get more and more sanctions and cut back on spring games and all the, all these other things. But with that said, there’s still a lot of quality soccer [00:09:00] being played in division three. Believe me, a lot of quality soccer, probably more so than any time in my career. 

Matt: Yeah, absolutely.

Well, you mentioned a little bit, but you know, we’ve seen uh, these division one changes, um, you know, the The class action lawsuits the settlement currently being talked about it’s done, but it’s not done There’s just a lot of ramifications They’re going to ripple through division one, division two, and even division three.

So they, what are your thoughts on this whole settlement structure and what’s going to happen with, with all the sports, really? 

Coach: Yeah, the transfer portal has changed a lot. I had a young man talk to me yesterday, as a matter of fact. He’s a very good goalkeeper. He’s a freshman from Houston, Texas, and he is number two on our roster.

What we try to do with goalkeepers matters. We bring in, first of all, we always have four goalkeepers, but we bring in. really good ones every two years. And the idea is that there’ll be the understudy for freshman and sophomore, and then it’s their position. Well, he can’t wait. He wants to get on the field and he, you know, and he said, I just I’m sick of sitting on the bench and so on and so forth.

So I’m probably gonna gonna transfer. And it’s, um, it’s really too bad because we’re sending the wrong signal. What’s happening now is many times The players, um, don’t, don’t bother working for [00:10:30] their position. If they don’t get the position, they’re just going to leave and find a place where they can play.

Oftentimes the schools that he’s looking at have programs that aren’t as good as ours. They had, they’re not academically as strong as ours. So it’s, it’s kind of, it’s kind of frustrating, but thank goodness. That doesn’t happen very often to us. 

Matt: Yeah, it’s, uh, I just, I think what next week the portal opens, uh, officially, and, uh, it’s just going to be interesting to see how many of these schools that had rosters of 30, 40 kids.

Now I got to get to 28 and how that’s going to push down to D two to three. And we’ll, with the budgets, our school’s gonna. Maybe even reclass divisions or see if they can reclass sports individually. I know the incidentally doesn’t like that now, but will they change that? I mean, there’s still a lot of, a lot of question marks, I think, out there.

Coach: A lot of things up in the air. And to be honest with you, that was part of my decision making process. Um, I just think we’re going in the wrong direction, but ironically, there’s a, there’s a something going on in division three that I think, you know, Young in my case, young men who are looking for division three have to have to be aware of many, many division three programs are in my mind over recruiting.

We’ve played, we’ve played teams this year where their [00:12:00] roster, Matt was 62, 63, 59. I’m like, what the hell can you do in practice with 59 guys? It doesn’t make sense. And I’m not sure you’re aware of this, there are some, I mean, look, as you know, some division three type schools are struggling, you know, Birmingham dropped every book, dropped their school last year, Wittenberg universities and our conferences in trouble and so on.

Division three coaches now are getting a stipend for every, in our case, every young man that they recruit. Sometimes the stipends up to 1500. So what’s gonna prevent that coach from over recruiting? I mean, he’s gonna get a lot of good players. He’s gonna get some extra cash. And you know, he’ll he’ll help the help the school survive.

So that is a problem that I think is, I just think it’s terrible to be honest with you. I mean, we played one of these schools. I don’t want to mention him on this, Matt, but we played one of these schools and we recruited a young man from who’s a sophomore at this particular school. Now, and I talked to him after our game, how things going and so on and so forth.

He hasn’t played a minute yet. Yeah. As a freshman, or this was halfway through this, hasn’t played a minute. He dresses, but he hasn’t gotten in. And I think, you know, I really think that’s a disservice. I think young men who are looking at D3 have to look at the roster size of the schools [00:13:30] that they’re looking at.

I think that’s becoming a more and more important factor. 

Matt: Well, and I can tell you just from my experience in talking to coaches, you know, each week, uh, it’s the same in NAIA and D2 as well. You’re just seeing more and more schools. leaning on sports as their enrollment. Um, I mean, it’s, I think it’s probably even more so in NAIA because I could, you know, most of those schools are maybe only a thousand students and they have 700 athletes.

Um, and it just, you know, it’s, uh, it’s a way to keep the lights on. And I think what we saw earlier in, in 2024, I think it’s either, you know, It was like almost one a week, uh, a school either and closing or announcing that they were closing. Um, so it’s, yeah, I think the landscape is, is definitely, definitely changing, uh, not only with the NCAA rules, but just the financial solvency of higher education.

Right. 

Coach: Yes. And I told you a moment ago about the, the, 25 last year, and that has changed a lot of things, Matt. It’s changed the behavior. Big time of division three coaches. When I started out in this gig. I mean, look, we always wanted to beat everybody. That’s how it is. But the coaches after the game, we could talk.

The coaches page caught it. DePauw and I were very, very good friends and and others. Um, it [00:15:00] doesn’t happen anymore. Matt, the behavior on the sidelines is ridiculous. The behavior of the players is ridiculous. But the fact of the matter is, I don’t care how you couch it, even in Division three. What are they getting evaluated on?

They’re getting evaluated on winning. I don’t care what you say, because they’re not teaching anymore and now they’re getting evaluated on recruiting. So that changes everything. I mean, it’s different from when you played, I guarantee it. I mean, it’s just, it’s just nuts the way. 

Matt: I mean, when I, well, when I went to college, I had three coaches in four years because it was, it was a part time job then, you know, we didn’t even have like the, the coach came in for the fall and that was it spring, the spring season didn’t exist.

Um, and, and so, yeah, things have changed. And then, you know, that was, I mean, what, let’s see. Five years later, I became a division two head coach, but I was also faculty. So I, you know, I’m with you. I was teaching and I had these kids in class. So the relationships were, were much different than you, you, you could set expectations differently.

Coach: Um, I don’t know what I do, Matt. If I just coach soccer, I mean, to me, I mean, what the hell do you do all day? I mean, I enjoy meeting students who aren’t soccer players. I enjoy meeting students across the spectrum in the, in the university. male, female, whatever. I enjoy [00:16:30] the interaction and you know, that is very motivating to me.

And that’s one of the reasons I’m going to stay, stay in teaching. Um, but what do you do? What do soccer coaches do all day? I can’t believe it, especially like in January. The answer is, of course, they recruit. I understand that, but I did pretty well recruiting along with my teaching for many, many years.

So, I mean, it is a doable situation. Yeah, for sure. 

Matt: Well, I want to leave you with just one last question here, and And with all these changes that we just talked about with everything happening with the transfer portal, with D3, D1, all the whole kit and caboodle, uh, as someone who’s been around this college game for so long, what advice would you give to, you know, my daughter’s 16 junior in high school, she’s going through this process right now for her, for, for, for boys doing the same thing.

What’s some good advice that you think all these kids should know right now? 

Coach: I think maybe a couple of things. I think number one is. You choose an institution for its academics and do, do the academics at that institution match your interests? I think that’s number one, Matt. And if they have a good soccer team, great.

But I think what you’ll find is you can find a place who can take care of you academically and serve your interests, um, And have a decent socket team. There are enough of us out there that you could do. You could do that. And I think secondly, and I’m not 100 percent sure about women’s [00:18:00] programs. You probably know more than I, but in regards to the men’s programs, check the roster size.

It’s right on the Internet right now. You can go on there. Website and you can see how many people they have, how many goalkeepers, how many of this, how many of that, because that’s becoming more and more prevalent. And I think that’s, I think it’s a, I think it’s an abuse of the student athlete, to be honest with you.

You know, we have Wesleyan, we have 32 lockers in our locker room and that’s the size of our group. That’s how it is. Now, occasionally maybe we’ll have a couple of goalkeepers, you know, share a locker. But not usually. And we recruit young men who we know are going to play here and we know they’re going to influence our team as freshmen.

I didn’t say start because that’s still difficult for freshman in a good program, but they’re going to play. And so I think you’ve got to look at the The academics first, the size of the roster. And then I think the third factor, which I think I’m probably biased about this, but is the coach got to get in and talk to the coach and see what the coach’s philosophy is.

You know, see how many talk to the players. Our best salesman for our program of the players. So every time a young man shows up on campus, he goes out to lunch with with some of our players. And I tell the tell the recruit, ask him questions. You know, how many games did you play as [00:19:30] a freshman? You know, how’s the coach?

What kind of practices do you have? And so on and so forth. Does the coach care about academics? I tell my guys, if there’s a conflict between academics and soccer, there’s no conflict. It’s academics. I mean, I don’t want to see you at practice. Go take care of business. And I think all those things are really, really important.

And getting more important, I think. 

Matt: Yeah, absolutely. I couldn’t agree more. And, uh, and it’s why you’re one of the best in the biz and coach. I really do appreciate you taking time again in your last season, preparing for this conference tournament. Good, good luck tomorrow. Uh, hope you, you, you take care of business and we’ll see you in that NCAA draw, maybe, maybe if things go well, uh, Matching up against my alma mater.

Hopefully they win their conference tournament get in the NCAAs again and 

Coach: Remind me who that is, Matt. 

Matt: Catholic University. 

Coach: Oh, yes. We’ve played them in the past. 

Matt: Yeah. Yeah, so Yep, they’re they’re they finish second in their conference. So we’ll see how the conference tournament goes there. They’re looking good.

But of course Uh, you know, we we’ll hope that ohio wesleyan does the same so really appreciate it best of luck coach If you get down to anything, uh soccer related here in bradenton Be sure to look me up so we can go grab a beverage or something. All right coach 

Coach: Trust me, I will I can guarantee that.

Thank you. 

Matt: Sounds good. All right. Take care coach. 

Coach: Bye. Bye