Hear From a Director of Compliance of an NCAA Division 1 Program
We are excited to kick off our interview series with Leslie Fields, Director of Compliance at Xavier University. Leslie has worked at several D1 and D2 schools in a compliance capacity over the years. She is well-versed in college athletics and what student-athletes need to do in order to prepare to play in college. We cover what prospects need to do during high school to make sure they are able to play in college. We also talk about scholarships, limits, academic money and more. Lastly, we discuss what it takes to be a successful student-athlete and what support mechanisms are in place to assist with that. I hope you enjoy and learn as well!
FULL INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPTION
[00:00:00] Matt: Hi everybody. It’s Matt Baehr from discover college soccer.com. I’m excited to kick off our inaugural podcast slash video slash interview, whatever you want to call it. Um, with a good friend of mine, Leslie Fields, who can you believe it’s been 20 years? I mean it, yeah, it, um, you blink it, it goes by, right? Um, so.
[00:00:30] Uh, Leslie and I met in grad school and when I left grad school, I went to a division two school and coached college soccer for a couple of years. And in that 20 year span, Leslie’s been primarily focused in college athletics on the compliance side of things. Uh, and currently, Leslie, what’s your title? It at Xavier director, director of compliance.
[00:00:52] So, um, For everybody out there not familiar. Uh, let’s start with Leslie. What is the director of compliance do?
[00:01:03] Leslie: Um, thanks Matt. We, uh, You know, we it’s an important job because at the end of the day, we really are protecting the eligibility of all of our student athletes, but also the integrity of the athletic department and really the whole university.
[00:01:22] Because certainly if we always say that I fluidics is not even close to the most important thing that the university does, but we are the most visible. And so if there is some type of. Rule violation or scandal. That’s, what’s going to be in the news. If it, that happens in the history department, that’s not going to be newsworthy, but if it happens with the soccer team, then that will be, that will be the headline.
[00:01:47] And so, and so we do that by, um, would we do lot. Education and outreach. We, um, I mean, this is kind of an example of something that we do. We, we we’ll go and talk to high schools locally, and a lot of compliance offices do that. We’ll come, go and talk to high schools on, you know, their college night to talk about, um, what it’s like to be a student athlete, um, and what the requirements are.
[00:02:11] Um, and then with our people here, there’s, again, lots of education because we do a lot of monitoring. Well, you can’t be everywhere at all times. And so we try to be proactive and educate people to help avoid violations before they happen. And so, yeah, that’s what we do. Just protect everyone. That’s how we like to look at it.
[00:02:29] Some people look at it as police
[00:02:33] Matt: secret service, secret service or protector.
[00:02:38] Well, And I think it’s awesome. I mean, I, one of the reasons I figured it was great to, to kind of kick this whole thing off with you is, is, you know, players and parents both don’t necessarily even think about it. Right. It’s one of those kinds of secondary things. Um, and so, you know, I think it. It’s good to hear from you specifically.
[00:03:02] So, so folks understand, you know, what all the different nuances are during the recruiting process while at school, the whole idea behind eligibility and, and making sure that you can play once you get to that level. Um, you know, by the, by the rules that the NCAA sets forth. And, and obviously for, for anybody listening or watching.
[00:03:25] You know, this is mostly, we’re going to talk about NCAA rules. Um, the NAIA is a completely different organization with a completely different set of rules, but they still have rules nonetheless. So if you end up going to an NAIA school, make sure that you understand these types of things from, from their point of view.
[00:03:46] Um, so. So Leslie and I both have several children who enjoy athletics, uh, and, and are fairly close in age. Um, so when, when do you think parents and kids should start thinking about, you know, their college athletic pursuits and, and how to make sure that when they want, when it’s time for them to get their.
[00:04:11] That they’ve done what they needed to do and are able to do this, to do it.
[00:04:15] Leslie: I think, you know, by the time we start high school is probably the time to at least have the conversation with your high school guidance counselor to let them know, Hey, I’m looking at perhaps being an NCAA student athlete and that’s division one, two or three, there will be certain requirements.
[00:04:33] Right. Um, and so. Just making your guidance counselor aware that that’s your intent so that you’re taking classes. That will count toward NCAA eligibility, um, for the NCAA, you know, you can’t just take, um, home-ec classes the whole way through, and I mean, you won’t graduate if you just do that. Um, but also you won’t meet NCAA standards.
[00:04:58] And so, um, NCAA standards are that I think this is division one and two, both. You need 16 of what they. Your core courses. And so that’s English, math, science, social studies, and then there’s some room for foreign language. Um, what will not count are typically, um, religion classes, um, computer classes, business classes, which are all very valuable, but they’re not in the core.
[00:05:25] So, um, just to make sure that your each year you need to take an initial. That’s typically a graduation requirement too. Um, and then you’ll need three years of math. And then, um, you fill in the rest to get to the 16 with your, you can do more math, social studies, science, things like that. Um, and so to make sure that you’re on track, I would, I would have the conversation freshman year, sophomore year, um, you know, individual one.
[00:05:53] Soccer coaches can’t talk to recruits until they are juniors. So they might go and watch games, um, to evaluate, but they’re not able to speak to them on the phone or return texts or emails, which is challenging for our coaches, who even if they’re. Recruiting a certain person. If, if a, if a sophomore in high school or his or her parents call them, they’re not allowed to call them back, which is super awkward always.
[00:06:23] Or you run into them at the field. And the coach has to say, I’m so sorry and see rules. I can’t talk to you please. No parents. That is actually real. And they’re not just trying to impress you off. I know what my coaches always kind of struggled with that, but, um, so yeah, there’s kind of
[00:06:38] Matt: a, that’s a really good point.
[00:06:42] You know, I live down here in Brayden’s in Florida, we’re home to the premier, uh, soccer complex, which. Several national tournaments every year. Um, you know, with the ECNL Florida event was here a few weeks ago and I’m walking around and you see all the, the college coach, uh, swag everybody’s decked out watching games.
[00:07:05] And, and, and my daughter, who’s only in eighth grade at this point, um, you know, it was like, oh, there’s so-and-so college and so-and-so school. And it’s like, yeah, they can’t talk to you. You know? And like, I mean, It’s just the way it is. Like. Um, and I think a lot of parents don’t understand that. So, so they can’t talk to you until it’s like the summer in between sophomore, junior year.
[00:07:30] Um, then so when should parents and players start reaching out to schools though? Cause if, if you’re not getting on. Their list or, or, or their radar until you’re a junior on the girl’s side. Sometimes that’s a little late now on the boys side, slightly different, but what, what are you seeing or how should, how should players, you know, manage.
[00:07:59] Cut a mind field of timing.
[00:08:01] Leslie: Yeah. Um, you’re spot on. And that the women’s soccer recruits earlier, um, men’s soccer is still a little bit later. Um, I would say a couple of things. I mean, you can always send your stuff in at any time and they can look at it. They just can’t call you back or text you back. Um, the other big thing is.
[00:08:21] You know, if you, if you have the means and you, and you can get there and you can go to a college camp, that’s a, that’s a great way for our coaches to see you and, and you to get to know the coaches and see if that would be a good fit too. Cause I mean, sure you want to get recruited, but you need to make sure that where you’re going is a good fit for you too.
[00:08:38] And I would feel like campus. It would be a great way to do that.
[00:08:43] Matt: So, you know, let’s just say you’re a freshman, we’ve talked about making sure that you’re on the right track from a course perspective. And you’re, you’re reaching out to coaches going to camps, just know they’re not going to talk to talk back to you until you’re a junior.
[00:08:56] Um, what about grades and test scores and that sort of thing, as you’re, as you’re navigating your way through.
[00:09:06] Leslie: I mean, you always want to do as best you can. Um, it’s the NCAA standard for GPA and test scores is actually quite low. And I think that’s intentional. I think the NCAA feels like if you are admitted to the school you want to go to, then you should be able to play.
[00:09:26] While maintaining some type of level playing field. And so the, the bottom, the low level GPA that you have to have in division one is 2.3. Um, I believe division two is still 2.0, I haven’t been in a division two school for a few years, but it I’m pretty sure it’s still 2.0. And so, you know, that’s low and, and frankly, soccer student athletes.
[00:09:49] I have pretty good. GPA’s we don’t, we don’t worry about them so much. Um, test scores are interesting because a lot of schools, my current school is Xavier included. They’ve gone to test score optional. So you don’t even have to submit a test score to be admitted to Xavier. The NCAA still requires that test score, although they have not for the last two years because of.
[00:10:15] And so it’ll be interesting to see if they just leave it at, we all kind of feel like it’s unnecessary. If they have the two, three, and they have, and they took real classes that will prepare them to do well in college. Um, so that’ll be interesting to see, uh, you know, I think they’ll want to maybe study it a little more to see.
[00:10:35] What the impact was on having students who didn’t take the sat or the act, and then like, did they end up graduating from college? Was there an impact or not? Um, so it’ll be interesting to see if they bring it back for two years, so that that cohort is through. Or if they just say, you know what, they’re doing fine so far, let’s scary.
[00:10:56] Um, so yeah, but, but all of that said in soccer, the full scholarship, the full soccer scholarship is pretty rare. Um, and so you’ll want to get a high GPA and a high test score to help get more academic merit aid at your institutions though. Um, don’t be just pushing for that two, three, because you can, you’ll hurt your chances to get.
[00:11:23] Matt: Okay. Um, well, that’s interesting all the test score thing. Um, so fast forward kid kids, you know, gone through high school, 4.0 great test scores. Took all the classes they need. Can they. Go and play college soccer or is there something else they need to do in order to make sure they’re allowed and eligible and all those things?
[00:11:51] Leslie: Yeah. So every, every high school student who is going to play division one or two or three NCAA sports will need to register with the NCAA eligibility center. And that’s, it used to be called the clearing house. It was maybe a more accurate term because they were just making sure everybody’s adequately prepared.
[00:12:09] For the rigors of being a college student athlete. And so, um, you’ll just register, they, they will ask questions about your participation history to make sure that you have not professionalized yourself. Um, so they certify that amateur status and then they certify your academic eligibility as well. And so they’ll, they’ll go through it.
[00:12:27] Check your core courses, check your GPA. Um, if they bring back the test score, they’ll check your test score. So all of that needs to be submitted to the eligibility center. Um, you are high school. That’s where we all need to go talk to your guidance counselor again, ask him or her to send your transcript to your official transcript, to the eligibility.
[00:12:46] Um, if you go to more than one high school, you have to get the transcript from each high school. Originally. Even if your courses are on your second high school, you have to, they want each one separately. Um, and then whether you take the act or sat, then you go to. Websites and you can have it sent to the eligibility center digitally, so it’s not terrible, but of course there are fees for all of that.
[00:13:09] Right. So I think we’re up to $90 registration fee for the eligibility center. Um, and then there are always small fees to have your test score sent as well. So. So, yeah, but if you’re the NCAA has, they’ve gotten better about, um, looking at students’ records earlier on. So they’ll, they’ll assert, they were finding that students who presented a certain level of GPA and a certain number of core courses always ended up, but 99% of the time ended up being qualifiers, which is what they call someone who’s ready to, um, to play and is eligible right away the freshmen.
[00:13:45] And so now they’ll certify it, like after your junior year, 12 core courses done, and you have, uh, over a three GPA, then they’ll go ahead and certify you. So it’s been nice so that the student doesn’t have to stress over the summer. The compliance person doesn’t have to stress over the summer, um, to make sure that they’re gonna be.
[00:14:06] Matt: Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s a necessary step. It’s, it’s not a big deal, but it’s something you have to do. Um, and I will say if we have anybody that is not from the United States, that’s watching this or listening, uh, you still also have to go through the clearinghouse and the hoops are a little bigger. Um, and there are certain, um, Equivalencies, uh, in classes.
[00:14:35] And sometimes that can be a little bit, uh, you know, a little bit challenging. Uh, but for, for those US-based students, it shouldn’t be too much of a big deal, but you know, old grizzled guys like me, you’ll always hear us call it the clearing house because that’s what it was when, well, when I, when I went to college and when I was coaching, it was still a cleric now.
[00:14:56] So, um, Anyway. Um, well, you mentioned you mentioned scholarships, um, and that the, yes, the, the, the full ride in soccer is, is not that common. I think that’s a, it’s a huge misconception out there that, uh, that schools are just handing out, uh, full rides. Um, I think what many folks don’t understand is that the NCAA actually limits how many scholarships a school can give out.
[00:15:27] First of all, in each sport. And second of all, it’s up to the school to decide whether they fully fund that amount of scholarships. Um, and, and, and now at the division one level, I would say, w when you agree that most schools are fully funded. Um, but you’ve also, you’ve been at division two schools. I was at a division two school.
[00:15:49] It’s not quite always fully funded once you get the division two, right?
[00:15:55] Leslie: Yes. Yeah. I have found that soccer has become most schools will, uh, whether they publicize it or not, they will tear their sports. So you have your priority sports, and then you have. The other ones that are still very important, but they’re not funded at as high of a level.
[00:16:13] Feels like, you know, you’re football, volleyball, basketball, and soccer are the ones that are our top tier more often than not. So
[00:16:23] Matt: it’s good to hear that soccer is moving on up in the world. Right. Um, so I mean, so how many. How many scholarships are available. And, and what does a scholarship cover? Like when we say a full scholarship, what does, what all does that mean?
[00:16:40] Yeah,
[00:16:41] Leslie: a full scholarship will cover your tuition fees, room, board books. So your tuition, any student fee or course fees, your dorm bill, your meal plan and your books. Um, in women’s soccer, the team gets 14 scholarships and those are, but you, you’re not going to see 14 girls with a full scholarship. And then the other 15 with nothing it’s 14 and they break them up and spread them around to, uh, you know, People will carry between 30 and 35 on a, on a women’s soccer roster.
[00:17:19] Um, men’s soccer is 9.9. I don’t ask me why it’s not 10, but it’s 9.9 and same thing. They also will have about 30 guys on a, on a squad and they’re splitting up those 9.9 a month. All 30.
[00:17:38] Matt: You mentioned earlier, you know, make sure you get the good grades. So you get the academic merit. So if most kids let’s just let’s make it easy for us. Cause it’s morning. And I can’t do math right now. Um, let’s say each kid’s getting a half scholarship. Right? What, you know, if I, you know, super smart, can I get a half of athletic money and a half scholarship of academic money?
[00:18:07] Leslie: Um, most schools, yes, most schools, you can, you can kind of stack your aid. And so maybe you get academic money or need-based money from the institution, um, that can stack with your athletic aid. And so we I’ve seen coaches can be very. There’s a couple of different ways that they could offer a scholarship.
[00:18:29] Um, a coach could say, and I’m going to stick with your easy math. A coach could stay, let’s say a full scholarship is $40,000. So a coach could say, I’m going to give you $20,000 in soccer scholarship, or they could say, I’m going to give you a 50% scholarship, or they might say, I’m going to give you, I’m going to cover your full tuition.
[00:18:55] Only tuition when we combine your soccer and your academic aid. Well, they’re kind of the three ways that I’ve seen most commonly. Um, if you, if you’re in a position to negotiate pro-tip parents, um, you know, Tuition and fees and room and board are always going to go up during your students four years in school.
[00:19:17] I don’t care where they go. So if you can, if, if a coach is saying $20,000, if you can, you might say how about we make that 50%? Because then if you have a percentage, then. Dollar amount will increase as does tuition room and board. If you just get $20,000, then you’re going to be on the hook for more as the years go by.
[00:19:38] So if you’re in a position you might not be, and the coach might not be either, right. He’s got a budget for 30 kids, um, and four years out and forecasting that. Um, but if you can try to get that person into.
[00:19:52] Matt: Okay. Um, I mean, do I mean, I know. Money side of things. There’s, there’s the scholarships. The school can offer grants.
[00:20:05] There’s the need-based money. You mentioned that are loans or, or federal loans, or even the school has specific things. And then you got outside, uh, grants and scholarships offered by, um, private businesses or other things. So. Do those factor in, at all, or in terms of stacking in terms of being able to cover the cost is, you know, does that would getting any of that factor into how much or how little you got on a, on a athletic scholarship?
[00:20:39] Leslie: Yeah. It shouldn’t impact how much you get athletically, although it could, because those, I think, well, both sides men’s and women’s, you’ve got those equivalency limits and that. W like in men’s soccer, we’ll just use men’s soccer. For this example, they’ve got 9.9 scholarships, but that also means that that dollar amount, whatever 9.9 is at that institution, there are certain.
[00:21:10] Kind of aid that are not soccer scholarships that have to count toward that 9.9. Um, and cause that’s your team NCAA limit. This is a little getting in the weeds a little bit, but it’s important to understand. Um, so a lot of those, so any academic merit aid, the NCAA recently changed that rule. So if, if you were given something by the school based on your academic performance in high school, That is exempt and that does not count toward that 9.9 the team limit.
[00:21:42] So that’s great at a school like most private schools, including Xavier, cause they are pretty, um, generous when it comes to academic merit aid. They each, each student here is getting a pretty good chunk of change. Um, in terms of academic. And so that can stack and then that academic merit aid doesn’t hurt the team.
[00:22:03] It doesn’t count against the team. Equivalency. Other types of aid will count against the team equivalency. So you talk about the outside scholarships. I think you should definitely still go for them, but if it is. Tied in any way to athletics. So if it’s your high school booster club that gave you an award, if, even if it’s like your local tennis club, but part of the criteria was that you were, uh, an athlete that money now will count toward the team limit.
[00:22:36] Um, it tends to be. You know, a thousand dollars here and there, which is always like a lot of it’s a lot of money to a student or a family, but it might not hit the equivalency too bad, but be aware that there are some cases where you might either not be able to accept that outside scholarship or the school might have to reduce your athletic scholarship in order to make room for the other ones.
[00:23:01] So, um, it, it does come up honestly, and especially in soccer, when you’ve got. 30 35 students all trying to fit into those 9.9 equivalent. It makes sense. Yeah.
[00:23:15] Matt: All right. Well, let’s, uh, let’s kind of hit the last set of questions here, but this time we’re going to assume that all has gone well, and we’re now in college.
[00:23:27] Um, you know, and, and we’re, we’re ready to go. So what, you know, you, like I say, you’ve been. Blessed to work in a lot of different F uh, college athletic departments and see a, of, of the good, the bad and the ugly I’m. Sure. But what are some of the, I guess, traits commonalities, uh, of student athletes that you see that have, that ended up having a successful athletic and academic career as a student athlete?
[00:23:57] Leslie: I think the ones who have a level of independence. Already, um, in high school, which is, it can be hard to establish, but, um, but they can work independently. That’s big when they get here. Cause there’s, there’s a lot of support on college campuses, but you still have to take ownership of your own stuff. And then, um, I think self, like accountability for yourself is very important and.
[00:24:30] I feel like when we see students who transfer sometimes it’s just, Hey, I I’m, I’m really good. I’m better than this program. I want to play somewhere better. That happens. Or it’s the other way a coach might’ve thought this person was better than they are. They’re not quite good enough to play a lot at this program.
[00:24:51] You’re a good kid. You’re welcome to stay and be a part of our program. But if you want to actually play, you might want to go somewhere else. That definitely. But sometimes you just get a kid who’s just unhappy. And I feel like a lot of times it’s because everything is someone else’s fault and they don’t take, they don’t have that.
[00:25:13] Accountability for their own actions. And so, like, that’s a hard thing. It’s a hard thing to instill in your kids. I’m trying. But, um, those, those are the things like, again, there’s a lot of support on it. Like, especially if you’re a student athlete, More support than a normal, a non-student athlete because you have, you have your coaches and you have your teammates.
[00:25:37] And if you’re in a division one or two program, you’re going to have academic advisors and learning specialists here to help you, um, with your academics, you’re going to have. Um, probably a nutritionist in the department and you’re going to have a, um, um, a psychologist probably, and some other people to help with mental health.
[00:25:57] You’re going to have a lot of resources, but you have to have the maturity and the independence to seek out the resources and ask for help. So, um, yeah, sort of, like I said, independence and some self-awareness of, um, Taking ownership and then asking for help when you need it. That’s when I, when we talk to students, we do some exit interviews and they usually say, I wish we always ask them, like, what do you wish you had known when you were a freshman?
[00:26:26] And they say, I wish I would’ve asked for help in my business curriculum earlier, you know, things like that.
[00:26:31] Matt: So, so you bring up a good point. So, you know, if, if I’m looking at. Schools right. And shopping around for the, for the best fit. What, I mean, what are some of the things that, that a player parents should be asking in terms of the support systems, uh, that are available?
[00:26:51] What, you know, what, what should, what should kids be making sure that their school has if they need this, those sort of things? Yeah.
[00:26:59] Leslie: Well, Depending on what level you’re looking at, that’s the source of those resources will be different. So if you’re, if you’re high major, if you’re looking at Florida state, they’re going to have, I mean, they probably, honestly, for women’s soccer, they probably have a nutritionist for women’s soccer.
[00:27:18] They’re going to have an athletic trainer, maybe two and a strength and conditioning coach and, um, a sports psychologist and a regular psychologist and all of those things. In-house. Um, we at Xavier as sort of off mid-major ish, we have a lot of those resources. In-house but a lot of them are part-time.
[00:27:42] So we have a nutritionist she’s here two days a week. We have someone who comes in and teaches yoga. She comes once a week. We have, um, a sports psychologist and access to another psychologist. And they’re just not here all day, every day. Right. Um, at the division two level, you’re going to have those resources on campus somewhere.
[00:28:02] They’re just not going to be in the athletic department. Um, So, and, and, but typically dividend to schools tend to be smaller. And so you’re still going to be able to be serviced, whatever you need. Um, if there’s a. If there’s a, if someone has a learning disability, I would suggest looking into that at the school.
[00:28:25] Most schools have something, but I would just make sure it’s robust enough that you’re, that you’re comfortable with it. I have a kid who has an IEP, so I’m pretty well versed. So I know parents who have that, you’re going to be very well versed. You’re going to know what to look for. You’re going to know what you liked in high school and what you did and, and, and make sure.
[00:28:43] There are accommodations available for your kid to be successful in college too. And
[00:28:47] Matt: that, and that kind of goes the same for academic resources, right? Like if you’re having trouble in class tutoring, that sort of thing.
[00:28:54] Leslie: Yeah. If you’re, if you’re division one, you’re going to have academic advisors and tutors right there in house, right.
[00:29:00] In the building where you, your locker room is probably, um, division two, you might have one advisor for the whole department, so that person’s gonna be. You know, that’s too much for one person. So they’ll direct you though to other resources on campus, which are also great. Just maybe not as specialized for athletes, but,
[00:29:21] Matt: um, well this has been awesome.
[00:29:23] Uh, you know, any, anything, uh,
[00:29:31] Leslie: it’s hard to see your kids struggle, but let them, let them go through the struggle and they’ll come out the other side much better. And if you find those opportunities while they’re still in your house, do it then, so that when they get to college, they’ll be more prepared and ready to handle it.
[00:29:49] Matt: That’s good.
[00:29:49] Good, good words of advice for sure. Well, Hey, I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to us and, uh, and hopefully, uh, I’ll, I’ll see you again soon, whether that’s when I drive through Cincinnati or not, hopefully sooner rather than later, but, uh, thanks again for your time.
